A Royal Enfield forum for the people

[OlBilford]

We actually contacted Race dynamics /powertronics years ago when we were getting into the engine mods. At the time we wanted something that would extend the rev limit past stock. At that time there WAS a PC-V available for the Enfield , and we were using it, but it did not at that time offer the rev extension feature like on many other bikes. Race Dynamics came up with a , what I though as a hoakie idea about grinding off one of the nodules on the rotor... they effect ignition timing . I though that was ridiculous and unneeded. And I didn't like the idea of replacing the entire ECU , with one of their's , when a piggy back would do what we needed to do. I just did not get a good feel about them to be honest. Long story short, Dyno jet came out with a new version of the PC-V, that gave control of timing and rev extension shortly after that, an I was good.

I also don't like the idea of the canned maps that they are now putting in their units. They are most likely mapped in India, on their fuel and etc. They may be better now , overall ? But to me , Dynojet and the PC-V's are the bench mark.

Yikes! I would NOT feel right about grinding anything off! Hahah id hope they have been back to the ol drawing board since then...

Yeah ... it's kind of a fugazy thing to have to do in this day and age I figured ? A low tech fix. You know, instead of just altering the signals on crank position sensor and ignition coils.

And this statement is just a fat out lie on their web site and can be dangerous to your motor.....

"Higher Rev-limit

The standard rev-limit not only kills power, it kills the mood too. PowerTRONIC’s preset 12,000rpm rev-limit lets you unleash the power within. With a wider powerband, higher in-gear speeds and increased top end performance, the revised rev-limit helps in reaching higher top speeds, attacking corners harder, eliminating unnecessary up-ships and keeping the engine in the powerband while downshifting. For race setups, PowerTRONIC supports upto 15,000rpm "


Believe me ... you do NOT want to rev one of these motor's up to TWELVE THOUSAND RPMS ! ? Hahaha ! Crazy in this case man ! This engine is no where near being designed for that kind of RPM. And they could probably NEVER reach THAT high of an RPM anyway. Just because one CAN rev a motor higher, does not mean that you should . With a near stock bike with just an intake and exhaust change , the maximum power you are going to make is well below what the stock rev limiter is set to. So in other words... let say your max power comes in at around 4800-5000 rpm's. And that is about right with some minor mods . Above that RPM , your power starts to DROP. So your basically over revving the motor and LOOSING power. With Absolutely NO gain. If you backed off the throttle and kept it in that peak HP range , you would go faster ! And not put unnecessary wear on to the engine. That statement they have there is just stupid.


I can tell you, that with a whole bunch more engine mods , I never NEEDED more then 6200-6500 rpms. And you only hit that high of an rpm when you are REALLY ON the throttle . My PEAK HP numbers are usually around 5800 rpms... and I just rev it THAT high, so when I shift , my rpms drop back down to that 5800 area. And that is just for real " hot roding" around stuff" when I'm in the mood. But you don't need to rev it THAT high all the time. If you start revving one of THESE motor's above 6500 rpm's regularly ? That bottom end ain't gonna last very long... A senseable rev limit is a good thing, and it will prevent someone from getting Stupid. Like I can at times get ? Hahaha ! Really though , no need in the world to Rev it as high as they suggest. You won't gain power and your'll damage the motor...

If your mood is to kill your engine,then this is the thing you need!hahahahah yeah,I was skeptical...I sure didn’t want to throw one on my bike.. I’m a palooka,I’ll hammer my bike...I don’t need anything like that..besides there are waaaaaay to many variables for me to be messing with on any ecu doodad. I'll find a way to set something on fire or make it do something it would never do in anyone’s worst daydream.. it’s nice hearing from someone in the know...I appreciate swamp fingering it out....but man,ol bilford is calling Sanskrit on that...it’s all mystical....

[gashousegorilla]

Hahaha ! Yup. " Listen...This here Powertronics magic box , basically has NO rev limiter and defeats the stock one ! So for you Polooka types out there.. Get a damn Tach with shift lights and warning alarms ! " Hahaha !

[swamp2]

Hey Tim - I've been trying to respond to your PM - my PM replies keep getting stuck in the Outbox and never making it out. Any idea what's going on?

Steve

[Tim]

Hey Tim - I've been trying to respond to your PM - my PM replies keep getting stuck in the Outbox and never making it out. Any idea what's going on?

Steve

They sit in the out box until they are viewed by the receiver.

I sent you a test email with no attachment, and it bounced too, I don't know what to make of it.

[swamp2]

Got my ebay PC-V and USB cables yesterday. I'm still waiting for the O2 eliminator so haven't installed it on the bike yet. But, was able to hook it up to my laptop, run the app, update the firmware and look at the maps. The one that was in there for the Conti GT appears to be based on the posted Dynojet one, but there's some weirdness in it. Like adding 30% fuel at 1000 rpm? I was planning on removing some down there!

Steve

[gashousegorilla]

What's the map description at the bottom of the page Steve ? I remember hearing a LOT of complaints about those GT's running LEAN when they first came out. Hitchcock's was VERY quick with offering a PC-V with a map for those bikes .... like RIGHT when they came out ?! They must have known something... Anyway. Then the factory re-flashed or updated the fuel map a few months later on the newer GT's.

Steve, here is one of my earliest maps that you are welcome to try. I can also try emailing this to you if you like, or you can just save the map that you currently have there ... just in case.... and clear out the numbers on your fuel table and enter these in. This map was made on my bike when it had a Uni filter on it, Stock head pipe , emgo reverse cone muffler , and a high compression head on it, Stock cams, It is NOT exactly how your bike is set up now... but I think it will be closer then anything else your currently have. Tim has also passed his map to me , and I can try and get you that as well.. let me know.

[gashousegorilla]

I have a ton of maps I made or had made over the years. Both on a Dyno or with an Autotuner. EVERY map is going to be different , because every bike is different... even in their stock form. And every mod is different and requires something different as far as fuel goes, to be good. Air filters flow differently, pipes and mufflers flow differently.... Cams will change things pretty radically.... manifold pressure changes. Even different throttle position sensor voltages. And add to that... how is the stock ECU and its' sensors reacting to those changes ? That's why it is BEST to tune each bike individually , using a base map to speed things up , on a Dyno or using an autotuner.

Here is Tim's canned map. After market Silencer , and a K&N air filter...

[swamp2]

GHG and Tim - thanks for sharing the maps. Yeah if you can email them that would be great - Tim has been trying but it seems his computer doesn't like me!

Looking at the maps, I am a bit surprised to not see more fuel being removed at idle and low rpms, given the propensity for rich running. I was out on both yesterday (January temps near 50 in upstate NY are a gift not to be missed!) and the amount of unburnt gas they dump out at least when cold is ridiculous!

I have to confess, in a moment of weakness after a few too many beers last night, I pulled the trigger on a used ebay AT-200 for like $125. So if that works out, eventually i'll be in better control. But it'll be a stepwise thing, want to get the PC in first with some decent baseline map. Then figure out next steps, whether to weld in a bung on the stock header, or get something less restrictive first or whatever...

I've been watching a bunch of videos on using the AT, I have to admit it is a pretty cool system!

[gashousegorilla]

That's another good deal on that auto tuner ! Nice ! You'l be wanting to play with that thing in no time I figure.. Haha ! And yeah, I probably wouldn't waste it on the stock head pipe either. PM me your email address Steve , and I'll try to get those to you.

I hear you on the cold weather rich running...

Why not a lot of fuel out at idle and down low on those maps ? That map I showed you was the first map we made I believe ?. And it was warmer weather , and I wasn't as smart back then ! Hahaha ! That was our first attempt at tuning one of these bikes. And we did pretty much the "normal" thing at the time , and not messed with the idle and start up fuel . All my later maps are with Cams and at THAT point , I REALLY recognized the issue. Also the motor at that time had a high compression head .. with a real active chamber , that swirled the mixture. It vaporized the fuel better. One of the reasons why I think you see the difference in Tim's map and mine... less fuel added, because it was making better use of what was going in there. I would use either Tim's map or my map as a "Base map", when you tune with the auto tuner. It will just alter what ever numbers in there, to how you bike is now.... and it's pretty cool to look at the trims, and see how things have changed.

Steve, if you think you are running like REALLY crazy rich now ? I would check your TPS voltage ... that sensor has a bit of adjustment on it. And it could get knocked a little one way or the other if you were down there working on things , or even from vibration. The sensor voltage should be .6v for a stock bike at idle. A higher voltage will richen the mixture across the range , and a lower voltage will make it leaner. You can check the voltage with the PC-V when you have it hooked up ... one of the first things your going to do it calibrate the TPS voltage. And you will see the voltage when you do it. OR ... if you want to back probe with a multi meter before hand. You can check the voltage and make sure it's in that .6v area.

Another thing that comes to mind , it that insulator between the head and the intake manifold. There is a notch in that insulator which gives clearance for the injector. ... clearance for the spray pattern. I have seen those poorly made, where a piece of the material is hanging down in front of the injector... and the fuel just puddles after it hits it. And I have seen them disintegrated from the fuel hitting them around the inside . That insulator goes in a specific way... with the bump on top , and on the right side . That will align the clearance notch with the injector... It's worth a look at.

[swamp2]

GHG, I probably overstated the cold idle richness a bit - I don't think there's anything really wrong, they just seem to generate a lot of smoke (unburned gas?) until they're pretty well warmed up. Both my bikes behave the same way. It just seems like it shouldn't be necessary.

Question on the wideband O2 sensor - where in the exhaust system is this best positioned? I gather the stock narrowband sensor location is not optimum, but don't really know why...