A Royal Enfield forum for the people

[Ace.cafe]

Lookin' good!

[Street_Kleaver]

Well now. Apart from old mates spam in the previous post.
Today was a good day.

The AFR worked well. But wouldn't register anything under 3500rpm. The 02 sensor is too far back. But worked fine for checking the main jet and wide open throttle.

I've then since welded the 02 sensor bung closer the head. Unfortunately function over fashion this time, as much as I didn't want to drill a hole in my header. But I flush mounted the socket so once tuning is done the bung will barely be seen.

Manual asks for 200mm away from the head. It ended up about 260mm in a neat spot. Not mid radius of the bend.

Good news is she hit 150km/hr at 5200rpm, just shy 10km/hr of the "Ton". The afr reading a healthy 12.5 afr with a 180 main jet. 170 was getting a little to lean in the 13-14 territory.

So far my jetting is.
180 main
P4 Needle Jet
6DH4 Needle, 2nd clip from the top
20 Pilot.

I started with
200 main.
P6 Needle Jet
6DH4 Needle middle clip
27.5 Pilot.

The leaner I went the harder and harder it pulled and more bark exhaust. The above jetting is what the VM32 worked well with. Obviously the TM32 meters a lot more efficiently.

With the 02 sensor closer to the head I should be able to fine tune the needle better. That's tomorrow's job.

Ignition timing seems pretty safe. Only a little detonation between 3000-4000 rpm. But that well might be the needle circuit with a lean spot. I'll sort that out.

To get it to detonate at 2800-3000rpm you really have to short shift it and give it a fist full.

20220714_182739.jpg (759.28 KiB) Viewed 3933 times

Plug pulled with 180 main. Hard to see but soot ring is half way up the ceramic.

Side electrode is a goldy caramel colour for the top 3mm then coffee colour down the bend.

Center electrode has 0.5mm ring and dips down 1mm ring in line with the square edge of the side electrode.

20220714_183539.jpg (704.92 KiB) Viewed 3933 times

Probably the best Plug this bike has produced so far!

Once again. I ran out of hours in the day.

[Street_Kleaver]

So I moved the 02 sensor in the recommended location. Unfortunately I had to choose function over fashion this time.
But this time round I was getting a lot more consistent and accurate readings.

No AFR would register at idle. But as soon as the throttle was cracked it would come to life. But tuning the slow circuit is straight forward with Pilot jet sizes. Which I've jumped from 20 to 25. The mixture screw is 2-3/4 turns out on the sweet spot bordering the limit. But I feel 22.5 will be spot on will get it to 2 turns out.

What I've found is this engine likes the AFR to be at 12. Anything past 12.6 it starts to detonate at higher rpm. But with this AFR kit its lowest/richest reading is 12.2 and Highest/leanest is 17.2 being a narrow band 02 sensor.
It will display "R" for rich anything below 12.2. But, It's still been very helpful because I'm tuning to the cusp of "R" to 12.2 with good results.

Since moving the 02 sensor its been reading the higher RPM range 4000-5000 more accurately. And I've actually had to go up main jet sizes. Currently at a 200 main jet again. Which the AFR still creeps up around 12.6-12.8 and pings between 4000-5000rpm. Not a lot, but enough so you have to roll the throttle back and then ease it on. So I think a 210 main will do the trick.

Needle and needle jet still feels like its on the money. P4 and the 6DH4 2nd clip from the top. The AFR stays steady at 12.1 rolling up to 1/2 and 3/4 throttle. After 3/4 is where it will ping.

Plugs are looking very good. Left is the 200 main pull. Right is the one I've been using all the time. It's wet because on the way home the Negative wire on the coil ring terminal broke. So she sucked in a bit of fuel. I was stuck on the side of the road for a while till I got a lift home. But 15 minutes later it was repaired and away again.



Next test outing I feel this jetting should be pretty well spot on.
22.5 Pilot
P4 Needle Jet
6DH4 Needle 2nd clip position from the top
210 Main.

[Street_Kleaver]

Well it's done! Huge relief.
Jetted and tuned the strongest it will ever be.

Final jetting as follows.

220 Main
P4 Needle Jet
6DH4 Needle, 2nd Clip from the top
25 Pilot.
Air mixture screw 2-3/4 turns out.

Ignition timing set at the base set timing.
No detonation at all throttle positions.
Just a tiny bit of pinging short shifting and lugging it on at 2800rpm.

Tried the 22.5 pilot, it was just a little too small. 25 was on the money.

Tried a 210 main and still was just creeping up to the 12.5 AFR zone where pinging could happen.

220 Main stayed a stable a AFR of 12.2.
All throttle positions at 12 to 12.2 AFR.

At cruising 100km/hr with the 220 Main jet it feels like it's effortless. Smaller main jets it felt like it was just labouring that little bit.

Spark plugs are coming out chocolatey brown.

Very happy with the result and wasn't intending it to be a Ton Up machine. But it is.

Just wanted a strong street machine that was comfortable sitting at speeds on the Highway with some reliability upgrades.

Impressed!

[Ace.cafe]

Congratulations.
With the modifications you have, I knew it would be a Ton-Up machine.
And it has road manners. Just as I had intended for the Fireballs. It isn't 100% identical to a Fireball, but it has the cams and the general layout, so it has the same spirit.
I am sure you'll find it just as enjoyable.

[Street_Kleaver]

Congratulations.
With the modifications you have, I knew it would be a Ton-Up machine.
And it has road manners. Just as I had intended for the Fireballs. It isn't 100% identical to a Fireball, but it has the cams and the general layout, so it has the same spirit.
I am sure you'll find it just as enjoyable.

Thanks mate. And thanks for your help.

Initial intentions was just to get a little more out of it since it has a strong bottom end with updated bearings and steel conrod. A strong, powerful street/touring machine. But that got kind of blown out of proportion. Haha.
It has a spirit of a Fireball, traditional Cafe racer, but with a bit of my fabrication thrown at it.

Which marks that the GT535's engine will be coming out to get the same kind of treatment. But definitely in the mind of a Ton Up machine.

I won't push it to those speeds ever again. I'll ride it sensibly but within its capabilities of performance output. IE a little bit of throttle some times. Haha

Next will be getting the suspension and brakes working the best they can.

I'll build a new set of hoops using stainless rims from Price's, I am finding a vented twin leading shoe online as well.

Forks will get firmer springs and Race Tech Cartridge emulators. Rear shocks I'm yet to find what's decent on the market. I used to setup and tune my own Motocross and Enduro suspension. For general road riding on one of these I basically don't want the front end to dive under emergency braking. Which is springs and damping. Both currently terrible!

Cheers

Ben

[Street_Kleaver]

Hey guys. Sorry I've been a bit slack lately. I haven't updated for a while and a fair bit has happened.

Here she is in her current "iteration"





So my quest for my desired power delivery with cams didn't stop there.
I was never happy with the noise that the Price "R" cams created. I found that something is going on with the bushes. They are made from the Electra X cams reground with steel bushes. When the lash is adjusted and tappets set one of cams tightens up on the base circle and then go slack again. Which tells me one of the cam wheels has a bit of run out. It creates a fair bit of racket when the engine is running clacking away. Louder than usual. Later down the track I'll replace the bushes with phosphor bronze jobs.

The Price "R" cams are very good in power delivery. But were still tapering off by 3500rpm. In my engine configuration they are similar to stock Iron Barrel cams, just they pull further through the midrange and gentle taper off after 3500rpm. Which was close, but not quite what I wanted. Along with the noise they created did concern me.

So my last stab was the Hitchcocks 200180 Performance cams.
Finally! These were it!
They have the same lift to the Price "R" cams, just a little more duration and later inlet valve closing event.
Their characteristics would describe similar to the old Redditch Bullet power delivery.
It lost its off idle thumping bottom end but these cams come on around 2000rpm and don't quit pulling till 4500-5000rpm. It allowed the engine to rev easier and once you get going from a stand still. You don't notice the bottom end loss.
Only its noticeable from a dead standstill.

The HMC 200180 Cams are the 2nd row from the bottom.
Price "R" cams 2nd row from the top



Working from the top down.
Standard Indian Cams.
Price "R" Cams.
HMC 200180 Performance Cams.
HMC 90023 Race Cams.

For jetting, I turned it up a notch.
This time around I used the heated 02 sensor my GT535, wired up a simple circuit to turn the heater on and off. I found that with the heater on compared to the un-heated 02 supplied with the AFR kit I'd get better consistent readings at idle and lower throttle openings.
Packed a bag and headed out to my favorite stretch of road. Ironically in front of my old Motocross track I used to race at and ride religiously 20 years ago!

I resorted to a older method I would use tuning main jets on my race bikes. It's more of a "seat of pants" method but with some recorded metrics.

1. Set a point A and Point B (start and finish line)
2. Stop watch in my left hand, in 3rd gear, rolling along at 55km/h which was the speed/rpm the motor would accelerate away from when the throttle is cracked wide open.
3. Hit the timer as I went over Point A, simultaneously pinning the throttle wide open.
4. Finishing at point B, stop the timer and shut the throttle.

Was a bit of a juggle!
I tested each main jet with 3 runs and recorded the average.

With the new Digital Daytona Speedo. It's go some handy features. Such as maximum speed and maximum rpm reached.
So that was 3 metrics I could record.
Elapsed time with the handheld sports stopwatch. Max Speed (Km/h), Max Rpm.
With also the AFR gauge showing me what was going on per main jet change.

All this can be done, just via stopwatch. Which is how I used to. Or even using a mobile phone app with a GPS signal speedometer on the smart phone. But isn't entirely accurate, especially where I live with phone signal.
20 years ago, all I used was a stopwatch and plug chops.



AFR readings were 12.5 in the higher RPM/Road speeds. Richer 12.3-12.4 lower rpm speeds. Which is good thing at lower travel speeds to keep the air cooled engine cooler.

Cheers!

Ben

[Street_Kleaver]

Small update. But it may be a controversial one along with topics similar to Engine, Primary Drive and Gearbox oil, Tyre pressures and so on.



I've installed a 20 tooth drive sprocket and new rear sprocket drum along with a DID 530 VX3 "X-Ring" Chain.
Slimmer in profile. The standard 530 Heavy Duty chain measures 22.1mm wide compared to the DID 530 X-ring chain measures at 23.5mm. Bugger all difference!
Due to the X profile of the O-ring, there is a lot less contact area on the side plates. Which is less drag. Compared to O-rings, they are compressed and under preload by the side plates along with more contact area on the side plates.
You can even feel how free it is while handling the X-ring chain with your hands compared to a typical O-ring chain.
The X rings act like 2 lipped seals and keep its internal grease in and dust/dirt etc out. So a good advancement!
Another bonus. It's gold. 8)

More visual horsepower upgrades due to gold.



Plenty of clearance with the 5 speed cases too.



Next on to the 20 tooth front drive sprocket. Will it pull it? On a standard Bullet. Most likely not.

On my Build? I'll see.

I even "checked" by the appropriate test to see if it will wind out in top gear. I got it to 5150rpm and backed off, ran out of road. So that's a yes!

It reached 145km/hr (90mph) without a an issue.

With the whole configuration of this build now its a excellent touring machine. It purrs along at 3600rpm in 5th gear effortlessly sitting on a 100km/hr (62mph).
At 3600rpm its sitting "on the cam" in the meat of its power delivery with the Hitchcocks Performance cams. Which was my ultimate goal. Doesn't feel like it makes any more power. Just shifted it where I use it most. Twist the throttle at 100 and it pulls hard away, good for overtaking.
It's now a excellent highway cruiser without losing it's street performance fun. It's exactly where I wanted it to be!
The power spread being from 2000 to 4000 tapering off to 4500.
Where as the "R" cams where from 1000 (idle) to 3000 tapering off to 3500.

If I lived in a city. I'd choose the R cams
But I live in a rural area with long higher speed open roads. These are a good choice.

Next is suspension, brakes and the Redditch frame.

But also something else is brewing for a long way down the track when this may need a new bottom end rebuild. Or possibly a new project. A pair of Electra X heads. 350 and 500.

Haven't decided yet. I need to collect a fair swag of parts to get this to work on a Iron Barrel Bottom end. But I know it's doable.

[Street_Kleaver]

Another little minor creation.

There's Bar End Weights and Bar End Mirrors. Never both together as one or that look any good. So I made my own.
These big chonky heavy boys are from cheap Alliexpress. Nothing but a big slug of steel.

Pictured next to them are some spare adjustable 3in flat mirrors. Currently I had convex glass mirrors on. Why they worked well, cars and traffic looked like they were a lot further away.



What I ended up with. The stems are made of 3 bolts. The socket is the head of a allen cap screw. I drilled the hex out, then milled a flat base. Drilled a M6 through hole so the adjustable mirror could bolt to it.
The stem is a M8 stainless bolt. Heated and bent into shape. The base is a M10 button head allen. Drilled the hex out as well as filed flat edges so a spanner could be used.
Finally drilled and tapped the Bar end weights. All sand blasted and painted with 2k Gloss black paint.







They came up a treat and work very well. None of my body is blocking the view and they don't vibrate at all. The handlebars don't vibrate at all now either. I took it on a 40min long ride afterwards. Usually my right hand get tingly after 15mins. Nothing! Super happy with the result. 8)

[Street_Kleaver]

A little change, Swapped the brown seat for a larger.
Luckily the hinge I fabbed up worked and only needed one hole slotting. Spring mounts all in the same spots. A lot more comfortable!
The Brown seat the padding would dig into may hamstrings after a short while and became uncomfortable.







Size comparison compared to my old brown seat. Got to ride it today briefly until the rain hit. It's a little firm in the foam, but should soften up. Feels a lot more comfortable.



Fitted my old brown saddle seat to my mates Tribute Black. He's a bit shorter and is loving the lower seat height.
2 fine examples of 2 different generations of 500s! Although one goes a bit better than the other